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The Ethically Immoral Podcast
The Ethically Immoral Podcast is a program dedicated to long-form conversations with poets, spoken word artists, authors, and creatives who use language as a tool for truth-telling, healing, and resistance. Hosted by Mike Payne, the show travels beyond the typical interview to explore the personal histories, artistic philosophies, and cultural contexts that shape the voice of the Creatives we welcome.
It’s not just about poetry or performance — it’s about the people behind the pen. We talk about identity, healing, joy, frustration, and the journey of becoming. Some moments are deep, others are funny, but all of them are authentic. If you’re someone who values storytelling, vulnerability, and good conversation, this space was created and cultivated for you.
The Ethically Immoral Podcast
Volume Six: Chapter Two - Our Conversation with Dr. Theri Pickens
This week on the program, we welcomed Poet, Scholar, Educator, and Author of the poetry collection "What Had Happened Was" - Dr. Therí Pickens . Dr. Pickens is a Professor of English at Bates College, where she teaches courses in African American and Arab American literature, disability studies, philosophy, and literary theory. In our conversation, we explore the intersections of Blackness, disability, poetry, and presence — and how she weaves these into both her creative and academic work.
We begin with a fun round of word association that touches on everything from “Mad Blackness” to ‘90s R&B and Uno (yes, the card game), before diving into her creative history — from being the “young nerd” with a backpack full of books to her early dreams of publishing poetry.
Dr. Pickens shares how she began seriously honing her craft as a poet in 2017, using poetic forms to guide and discipline her creativity. We discuss how her scholarly work in disability studies, particularly Black Disability Studies, informs her poetry — and how she challenges dominant frameworks like “mutual constitution” in understanding Blackness and disability. She offers insightful distinctions between impairment and disability, and how structural barriers—not bodies—create inaccessibility.
Contact Dr. Pickens:
Instagram: @tapphd2010
Website: tpickens.org
Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include:
Ariana Brown – Supremacy
Instagram: @arianapbrown Website: arianabrown.com
Yaw – Ancestral Ghosts
Instagram: @kingyaw_
Dasan Ahanu – Conversation With God
Instagram: @dasanahanu Website: dasanahanu.com
Ayanna Florence – Boy Calls Me Pretty
Instagram: @poetnextdoor
Ifrah Hussein – Tell Us
Instagram: @ifrahhussein
