The Ethically Immoral Podcast
The Ethically Immoral Podcast is a program dedicated to long-form conversations with poets, spoken word artists, authors, and creatives who use language as a tool for truth-telling, healing, and resistance. Hosted by Mike Payne, the show travels beyond the typical interview to explore the personal histories, artistic philosophies, and cultural contexts that shape the voice of the Creatives we welcome.
It’s not just about poetry or performance — it’s about the people behind the pen. We talk about identity, healing, joy, frustration, and the journey of becoming. Some moments are deep, others are funny, but all of them are authentic. If you’re someone who values storytelling, vulnerability, and good conversation, this space was created and cultivated for you.
The Ethically Immoral Podcast
Volume Seven: Chapter Five - Our Conversation with Brenda Cardanes
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In Volume Seven: Chapter Five, Brenda Cárdenas joins the Program for a wide-ranging conversation about creativity, language, culture, visual art, and the experiences that shaped her voice as a writer and poet. A Milwaukee, Wisconsin born and based educator, essayist, and author, Brenda earned her undergraduate degree from the University of Wisconsin–Milwaukee, her teaching certification from the University of Wisconsin Oshkosh, and her MFA in Creative Writing from the University of Michigan. She is the author of the award-winning poetry collection Trace, which received the 2024 Society of Midland Authors Poetry Award and was the Silver Award winner of the 2023 Foreword INDIES Poetry Awards. She is also the author of three chapbooks, served as Milwaukee Poet Laureate from 2010–2012, and in 2025 was named Wisconsin Poet Laureate.
Throughout the conversation, Brenda reflects on growing up surrounded by creativity in many forms—from family members who painted, crafted furniture, made saddles, and told stories—to discovering poetry as the medium that allowed her to fully explore culture, memory, and identity. We discuss her early love of visual art, arts and crafts with her aunt, and the impact storytelling had on her imagination as a child. Brenda also talks about beginning to write stories around the age of eight, being encouraged by teachers early on, and eventually discovering poetry in high school through an American Authors course.
Our conversation explores the importance of representation in literature and how discovering Latin poetry and bilingual writing during undergrad changed her understanding of what poetry could do. Brenda speaks candidly about how encountering poets who reflected her own culture and experiences gave her permission to more openly write about identity, language, and heritage.
The conversation also touches on what it is like sharing life with fellow poet and former Milwaukee Poet Laureate Roberto Harrison, the ways visual art continues to influence her writing process, and what it meant to receive the call informing her that she had been selected as Wisconsin’s Poet Laureate in 2025.
Contact Brenda:
Website: brendacardenas.net Instagram: @brenda.cardenas.754
Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include:
Ephraim Nehemiah – Inheritance of a Broken Home
Instagram: @ephariamnehemiah
Khalil Saadiq – Somebody's Watching Me
Instagram: @khalil_saadiq
Alexandria Bennett – Color Blind
Instagram: @caffeinatedliving
Denice Frohman – Accents
Instagram: @denicefrohman Website: denicefrohman.com
Lionheart – Pretty Hurts
Instagram: @lionheartfelt Website: lionheartfeltonline.com
